Greenpeace W*ankers hold up VAG ship at Sheerness.

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JKSKodi
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:34 am
Location: Thurso, Caithness

Re: Greenpeace W*ankers hold up VAG ship at Sheerness.

Post by JKSKodi » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:53 pm

I agree that ultimately either full EV or hydrogen fuel cells are the way forward. However this all takes time to get the infrastructure in place: here in the UK we would need a big increase in carbon neutral electricity generation and new power grids to support everyone charging or hydrogen production and supply networks.
support
Until then Greenpeace should getting older ICE off the roads and replacing which ever presents the best option at the current time. My personal opinion is this currently is:
Full EV if you do shortish journeys only, especially in towns and you have access to charging; Hybrid if you do a lot of town driving combined with some shortish extra urban;
Petrol for low annual mileage, but regular longer trips; and Diesel for higher mileage/towing with regular long distance trips.
Keeping any ICE cars out of town and increasing trams / bus useage is the best for tackling high pollution levels in towns.

Obviously the balances of these will change over time.
Ordered 12 August: 2.0TDi 150 DSG (2WD) Edition 5 seats Petrol blue, beige Interior, Sunroof, Front parking sensors, Rear view camera, heated windscreen


Rob M
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:33 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Greenpeace W*ankers hold up VAG ship at Sheerness.

Post by Rob M » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:03 pm

JKSKodi wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:53 pm
I agree that ultimately either full EV or hydrogen fuel cells are the way forward. However this all takes time to get the infrastructure in place: here in the UK we would need a big increase in carbon neutral electricity generation and new power grids to support everyone charging or hydrogen production and supply networks.
support
Until then Greenpeace should getting older ICE off the roads and replacing which ever presents the best option at the current time. My personal opinion is this currently is:
Full EV if you do shortish journeys only, especially in towns and you have access to charging; Hybrid if you do a lot of town driving combined with some shortish extra urban;
Petrol for low annual mileage, but regular longer trips; and Diesel for higher mileage/towing with regular long distance trips.
Keeping any ICE cars out of town and increasing trams / bus useage is the best for tackling high pollution levels in towns.

Obviously the balances of these will change over time.
What is considered to be 'older' ICE vehicles?
If I went outside now and walked up and down my road I'd probably be hard pushed to find a few cars that were over 10 years old, the vast majority are well under that age.
Older ICE cars are in a minority and would account for only a small percentage of the overall causes of pollution in our towns and cities.
Im a confirmed petrol head and am part of a much much wider hobby where older cars are driven and enjoyed.
We contribute multiple millions of £s into the UK economy and, in the main, we use our older cars sparingly.
There are also people who own older cars because they cannot afford newer or kinda like the 'minge bag' motoring ethos of keeping cars on the road within a budget.
In all circumstances older cars, whether over 10 yrs old or 30 odd years old like my Pontiac, are in a minority and, in all probability, cause 2.13% of overall pollution.
I fully accept that my wonderful Kodiaq is going to contribute more pollution into the atmosphere during my ownership than my and about 10 other Firebirds dotted around the UK will create within the same timescale.
If the ICE engine is the big issue then its the issue with all of our modern cars, magically removing old bangers and getting the Government to reintroduce a nationwide scrappage scheme will just get old cars off the road without resolving the whole issue.
Clearly, the last scrappage scheme didn't reduce pollution in our towns and cities which proves that older ICE vehicles are not the primary problem.
Its NEWER ICE vehicles, there are way way more of them.
Kodiaq SE L 1.4 150BHP Manual in Moon White Metallic.
1988 Pontiac Firebird 5.0V8 TBI in Red
1991 Lotus Excel 'Hethel Celebration'


JKSKodi
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:34 am
Location: Thurso, Caithness

Re: Greenpeace W*ankers hold up VAG ship at Sheerness.

Post by JKSKodi » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:07 pm

Just done a straw poll around d our works car park of about 700 cars - about 1 in 3 cars were ten or more years old. These cars are obviously regularly used. Talking to colleagues quite a few have an older car they use daily to save their limited PCP/ lease miles.
Checked DVLA - latest data is for 2016 - cars 6 years an older (basically pre-EU5) is 57.1% with 40.5% being 6 to 13 years old. If we assume in the main that the older 17% are the cherished ones and do v.low miles, that still leaves 40% - and as it's now 2017, my straw poll of about 30% still in regular use is not too far off the mark. As these are more polluting than new cars I would conclude older cars still contribute a significant amount to pollution and replacement with new ICE will still be beneficial.
Ordered 12 August: 2.0TDi 150 DSG (2WD) Edition 5 seats Petrol blue, beige Interior, Sunroof, Front parking sensors, Rear view camera, heated windscreen


Rob M
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:33 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Greenpeace W*ankers hold up VAG ship at Sheerness.

Post by Rob M » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:16 pm

JKSKodi wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:07 pm
Just done a straw poll around d our works car park of about 700 cars - about 1 in 3 cars were ten or more years old. These cars are obviously regularly used. Talking to colleagues quite a few have an older car they use daily to save their limited PCP/ lease miles.
Checked DVLA - latest data is for 2016 - cars 6 years an older (basically pre-EU5) is 57.1% with 40.5% being 6 to 13 years old. If we assume in the main that the older 17% are the cherished ones and do v.low miles, that still leaves 40% - and as it's now 2017, my straw poll of about 30% still in regular use is not too far off the mark. As these are more polluting than new cars I would conclude older cars still contribute a significant amount to pollution and replacement with new ICE will still be beneficial.
DVLA data is as reliable as a two bob watch, you only have to look at their 'How many Left' site data to see that they are not exactly up to the minute with their data accuracy.
Having said that, Im quite happy to concede that much of that data and even your assesssment of it has a fair degree of accuracy but if you are stating that around 30% of older vehicles are still in regular use then you would also have to accept that over two thirds are not in regular use.
Your car park, theoretically, has only one in three cars that could be considered the most polluting and, in all fairness, saying that their removal from the pollution chain would have a positive effect would be like suggesting that an Elephant would notice if they had been bitten by a gnat.
Pollution in built up areas has much to do with stationary traffic as anything else, there is simply too much traffic in our biggest towns and cities and what is there has little chance of flowing freely because, for many years, there have been schemes to make such places as unfriendly to cars as possible without offering sensible alternatives.
Case in point is my estate where I live. Its now 10 years old and its heaving with parked cars which, half the time, are on pavements because the roads are too narrow for two way traffic and no thought was given as to how many cars would be part of a house hold.
This was nothing accidental, it was deliberate by design, prioritising pedestrians with ridiculously wide footpaths and mahoosive grass verges while squeezing vehicles onto the fringes.
When we bought our home part of the remit was ample parking for two vehicles and a garage, not everybody was able to achieve that, hence, what we have now.
Ditto our towns and cities, pedestrianisation, one way systems, traffic light priority to pedestrians, cycle paths, bus lanes, everything basically that prevents the free flow of traffic and the ability of emissions to flow out of the reach of lungs.
The only way there will be significant reductions to pollution in built up areas is to have draconian restrictions, something that would affect us all, irrespective of the age of our vehicle.
London is still failing to hit targets despite it go on a full assault on ridding the streets of older commercial vehicles and, bearing in mind, it is a reasonably cash rich city, isn't full of old bangers by any stretch of the imagination.
Year on year targets have been missed and year on year manufacturers have bought out more environmentally friendly cars.
Are we really saying that a 6 year old Mondeo ( 2011 model for gawd sakes) needs to be removed with all others of its ilk to hit targets?
I remember buying a new 57 plate Clio 1.2, that would now be considered as a serious polluter?
Im not convinced at all.
Kodiaq SE L 1.4 150BHP Manual in Moon White Metallic.
1988 Pontiac Firebird 5.0V8 TBI in Red
1991 Lotus Excel 'Hethel Celebration'


bigboss
Posts: 511
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:27 pm
Location: York

Re: Greenpeace W*ankers hold up VAG ship at Sheerness.

Post by bigboss » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:44 pm

Is buying new cars better for the environment or using old cars for as long as possible to limit the manufacture of new cars (the manufacturing process and shipping isn't exactly environmentally friendly)?
Kodiaq SE L, 1.4 TSI 150 PS DSG, Magnetic Brown metallic, beige leather, 19" Triglav, towbar, Heated windscreen & washer nozzles, Heated leather MFSW, Adaptive cruise control, Front & rear parking sensors, rear view camera. Škoda ID: 98705067


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